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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 1:25 pm  Reply with quote

i sit corrected! and death to the X box. the only good thing about the x box is halo, and now thats out on pc. whoop de do. im sorry but if you think the x box is great just for graphics, youre just an ignoramus who should die. there are millions of reasons why, i'll spell them out if any angry xbox fanboys start bitchin. okay my rants done now, lets see what i can get back from angry fools!
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SSH83
PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2003 3:50 pm  Reply with quote

Everything in the world IS predetermined, but not in the mystical way that destiny is often portrayed in. Letís minimize the scope of the topic for a little bit and letís talk aboutÖ dropping a ball. When we drop a ball, its movement is determined by all the forces that act on it during the course its travel (for example, gravity, air resistance, wind, etc.) The position of a ball at any one instance is the result of all the factors it has experienced so far up until that every instance. To predict the position in the next instance, we include the factors that are doing work to the ball at the current instance. So we can say that the course of the ball is forever determined by a set of factors.

Now hereís the twist, each of those factors that control the ball are also determined by their own sets of factors, and each of those factors has their owns sets, and on. Where does that end? If this chain of reference should end at a set # of prime factors that does not depend on any other factors, then and only then can we say that all things are predetermined (through chains of reactions) by the actions of those prime factors.

What about free will? Are free wills prime factors that are not determined by sets of factors? No. Our minds are constantly reshaped by the experience of life. So while our minds seem to be in our control, they really arenít. Our next action is determined by what happened to us, the amount of different chemicals in our body, etc.

The above is, I think, what the idea behind the Oracle of The Matrix. The machines can predict what is going to happen in the matrix because mastermind machine/program/source IS the prime factor, but they cannot predict the outcomes of the real world.

Perhaps the next time you think about your next action, you will question yourself why you are doing the thing you are doing. Why you are thinking about the thing you are thinking about. Why do you even give a shit thinking about these things? Is it because of my post? If so, have I predetermined an action that you will perform in the future by typing this post? Yes. I believe I did. Just like how mimo determined how I would spend the past 30 minutes of my life by starting this thread, so have I, to everyone reading this piece of crap. :D
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 2:09 pm  Reply with quote

Okay, so you've given us these great examples. Now prove completely that you are right. Can you? Can you possibly determine the full scale of magnitude the claim you have presented brings to question?

And even Datura has said (i think) that even once out of one billion, one trillion times, it may do something different.

Perhaps the predetermined idea that you support makes you like Calvin. "It's a lot more fun when you aren't responsible for your own actions"

And chemical makeup alone? Perhaps, perhaps. And our minds are constantly reshaped by our experiences, however lets get into why that is complete bullshit right there! You seem to be under the disillusionment that people will stay the same forever, or follow the same set of judgements and principles and react relatively the same way when something resembling the previous encounter presents itself. No. (As you so eloquently put it). What happens is half what happened to us, no arguement there. The other half is obviously what will happen. Can you predict your own future if something happened? Myself I have tried, and I have failed, because I simply do not know what will happen or what I will say as a consequence, since your future hasn't been written yet.

The machines determine what happens next by analyzing the MOST LIKELY course of action and planning accordingly. It's not that hard, computers could be designed to do the exact same thing at the current time. It's a rather simple method, however the slight deterrent to the system is when it does not go as planned (as things never do) you are completely boned. I'm sorry, but as human beings we are as predictable and unpredictable as anything. That's why, my friend, Neo in the movies made the seemingly illogical choice of saving Trinity and dooming Zion, and then still managed to save them both. They never saw that coming, they even admitted it. The architect said TO him (not in these exact words obviously) "You are a dumbass, you just sacrificed all of them for one person. It's all going to come crashing down." And yet, it didn't. He was able to usher in an era of peace.

And i did enjoy reading that piece of crap. Thank you. And though you might get the idea that I dont like you very much, welcome to the forum!
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thoth87
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:23 am  Reply with quote

actually, i don't believe that everything is ultimately affected by prime factors, i think it's more of a web than a chain.

allright, here we go. i punch something. the hardness of that something, the force exerted behind the punch, and (arguably) the energy concentrated into that particular action all act on deciding how much damage will be caused to the object. what decides the strength of that punch and the energy concentrated in it? my mind. what effects my mind? previous happenings and personal epiphonies (sp?) and of course, to cut it short, what could have caused such epiphonies about punching, then of course previous punching!

see? it's a cycle! of course, that's a poor example, but at the moment that's what i got to give to the thread.

and yes, welcome to the forum, and this little piece of crap.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:37 pm  Reply with quote

I agree on the web thing, mainly because it emphasizes my point. On a chain there is a definite path to go on, no choices. Always the same path. The web is the exact opposite, with different random branches and unexpected links that wind up making the web itself stronger in the end. What of that, pesants? (oh and its ephiphany, just thought I could be anal today!)
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The Renagade Blue
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:41 pm  Reply with quote

hmmmm....
its seems SSH83 has been scared away...
hahaha
well IM intregued
doesnt a web have to be held up by something? or is this the floating web of existance? and i think chains have starting points. Even if one of them is, acceptably, the present... doesnt it have to start somewhere

maybe im not making any sense
just trying to be an intellegent devils advocate
...if there is such a thing
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Sky
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:40 pm  Reply with quote

well, i sort of believe in this fate sort of idea, but not the dictionary definition though, like the way we act and our next actions are all determined on previous experience and ourselves and our minds, we cant control what happens to us, its an external factor, not in our control, but if you think about it, we only do what we do because of what we know..... if ya get me jist....... like if someoe punched you, your upbringing could be to whack em back, or you could just cry and run away.... this is our instinct, you dont really think "now... whats the best option.... will i regret anything, can i actually hurt this person if i punch em, if i run will i be called a whimp, is it the right thing to do" and spent 1/2 n hour debatin with yourself, you act on impulse.... which is predeterminned by your upbringing, environment, past experiences and ideas

well, its what i thing newho's
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thoth87
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:46 pm  Reply with quote

we do act because of what we know. and I am very impulsive sometimes, but very contemplative at others. like today, I just kinda decided to skip my fourth period class, out of the blue. just kinda never arrived at the class room. other times I'll sit down and try and figure out weather or not skipping is a good idea. not that I do it commonly... but hey, sometimes it happens.

and normally webs have to be held up, but they can float on water and blow in the wind too. but what water? what wind?
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:31 am  Reply with quote

Well the web needs a starting point, but it can have one of millions of starting points, correct?
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Sky
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 12:29 pm  Reply with quote

yeah but wheres the spider???
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thoth87
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:44 am  Reply with quote

not all webs need spiders. some simply form, such as cobwebs. no spiders needed. but this massive web we weave would kind of make everyone the spiders, and everything, each responsible for a strand of silk.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:29 am  Reply with quote

Well anyone can be a spider, or there can be no spider, or there can be no web and just the spider to create, or another spider could sit on the web created by another, anyone realize the many different alliterations to life that i just put up? Anyway, yeah, there it is.
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Sky
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2004 12:58 pm  Reply with quote

fair as snuff.....

i wouldnt like being a spider though, i have major arachnaphobia, even thinking of spiders maks me shiver physically, i cant keep still when theres one there....i just shake all over and get like a twitch!!!!
ewww....its happeneing now because im thinking of spiders!!!

another off topic post......
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