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The Boy
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2003 2:47 am  Reply with quote

Someone please tell me why it feels more real when i dream than when im awake? The mind is the only truth i can see but why?
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Datura
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 9:15 pm  Reply with quote

Because you're an insomniac? Becuase you have mental issues? Because you think it does, and therefore it does?
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2003 11:23 pm  Reply with quote

damn the scientist in me, hes going to answer first, but then again so is my illusuory self, so its a paradox of confusing information *ahem*

well granted we still dont know why we dream. it could be because we're just tired or the minds restless, or it could be that a message is being conveyed to us and we dont even realize it. perhaps our dreams are somthing that gives us some great meaning, some view of our own inner thoughts, and yet we fail to realize their true signifigance.

as to why they feel more real, ill answer this based on a personal note. i myself think the same way about dreams. myself i do because i feel like my perfect world is created through dreams and i can escape to them when i need to, both day and sleeping dreams.

however i also often (i can reacall 2, perhaps three counts when this has happened) i have had some clairvoyant visions of my own personal future through my own eyes. the first time i saw a portion of a river that i was to canoe down later that month (flint river if you were wondering), the second time i saw my mother bursting in on me at around four in the morning yelling at me for being up (ironically i think it was around the time i posted one of my former articles) and i guess it was just two accounts.

anyway, dont know what that does for you, maybe im insane, doesnt matter really to me. after all, its like i said, insanity is like beauty and humor, in the eye of the beholder. but to me, dreams are something that i crave to, but never hope to completely understand. there were some things manking wasnt meant to understand. one day all of it will come to pass, when were responsible enough.
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thoth87
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:11 pm  Reply with quote

Firstly... Flint MICHIGAN??? secondly...

you said that through you're dreams you create a perfect world (too lazy to go back and quote) but what about nightmares? are those part of your perfect world too?

a dream i had recently is one i would like to share, as it is relavent (i'll get to that later) and kind of cool. i had seen the film 'The Ring' that night, and (i had come to note ironically later) i had also been reading 'The Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring' that day. it came to pass that i saw the movie and thought it not scary at all. that night however, i dreamt the very last scene of the movie... with me being the target of the little girl's angst.

i had entered a nightmare...
...or so i thought.

as the girl rose up and her hair began to part so she could give me the evil eye, i suddenly found that i was cowering in the corner (just like the man on the film) but that i was ALSO wearing heavy armor (resembling a set of armor from 'Ronin Warriors' the anime series) and held in my hands a pair of katanas. i stood just before she looked me in the eye, slaughtered her where she stood and kicked her head out the window, when suddenly Gandalf burst through the door in a huff, bent down in front of the crackling television, and announced "Ah! the One Ring!" as he picked up a small, round, shiney object and rushed back out the same door.

this dream continued that night, with the same things happening, save for a few differences...

a few times my friends helped
my weapons and armor kept on changing
gandalf came in once with a pimping hat on
and the one time that i DID look the girl in the eye, i saw nothing but a large angry tyranosaurus rex as it tore her head off.

so i ask, what about that theory of a perfect world created through dreams?

Defend Thyself!!

BWA!
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:25 pm  Reply with quote

well then ill get in my pimping Alucard coat and get the guns! then its on!

but as for nightmares, it like physics. for every action there is an equal but opposite reaction. some dreams are ways of creating your perfect world, but sometimes the process can become flawed and take the things you want to have IN the dream and eliminate them.

its kind of a way of negative reinforcement regarding your perfect world. or it could be the minds way of saying that this is the REAL perfect world you want.

and flint river, in georgia...or was it florida...one of the two. its a crappy river too, only flows at about 2 MPH. great fun canoeing down! *belch*
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thoth87
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2003 7:47 pm  Reply with quote

oh, thought you meant my home-state...

anywho...

FLAWS!

so the mind creates the perfect world for you in your dreams. and a dream is basically what the Matrix is, with the exception of the dream being created by an outside force. taking your theory for granted, the Matrix has to have 'nightmares' eventually, and i wonder, just maybe, if that is the 'reload' that manifests when the one is supposed to repopulate Zion. thoughts?

BWA MORE COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2003 12:32 pm  Reply with quote

what he's referring to in fight club is how one guy creates another guy which is basically his evil side. they become friends, then the real guy kinda kills himself and the evil guy at the same time, only he DOESNT kill himself (his mind is what created the evil guy, he was gonna destroy it) he just shot himself through the cheek, tricking his figment into oblivion.

and thats a damned good point, however how do we know that dreams come from an outside forcee? what if they are past life experiences impeding on present day? now thats been said (i explore every aspect)

and i dont think the actual reload is the nightmare, i think its the point leading UP to the reload, i mean neos massivly screwing over the machines, now twice as much since he can hurt them in the real world. and once the reload happens, the nightmare ends *(for the machines, it begins when we are reloaded, and ends when the one comes about)*
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Datura
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 4:00 pm  Reply with quote

Actually I (a she btw *thwack*) was referring to the comments in the beginning about the nature of Insomnia. But good nuff.

Dreams: Are more likely residule experience creation mixed with subconcious yearning than past lives. I mean, to assume that "OMg they must be past lives" is ignoring the fact that so much of our life is experienced yet ignored or not payed as much attention to by the part of the brain (and senses) that says "Important stuff". 99% of our life experiene, day in, day out, we don't pay attention to. And I don't mean we're asleep or half-awake, I mean it's just not important stuff. The pattern on a leaf, the weird looking eyebrows on someone in your peripheral vision, or a birdsong we are too distracted to pay attention to but still here. Frankly, I think it's more plausible dreams are residue memory mixing with functions that still work whilst you sleep than wooo past life experiences coming back to haunt us (sorry, I'm just not a big fan of reincarnation).
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thoth87
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2003 7:14 pm  Reply with quote

Datura, you do have excelent points, but i don't really agree with dreams being residual memories brought to bear by the subcouncious. some of them may be, yes, but for the most part, i feel that dreams are your mind's true capabilities released and excercised, which it needs to do, before you wake up, supress your mind's true abilities, and go on auto-pilot for the rest of the day. (at least some of us go on autopilot. the most of us on this site, i think, are some of the lucky few that actually live through their day... and realize what they're doing).

well, there it is.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 9:41 am  Reply with quote

dreams, to me, are whatever the mind wants to see. its a way of escape, or a way of talking with each other to reach some kind of cosmic understanding.

or its just a bored mind doing things! we may NEVER know!
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thoth87
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 11:00 am  Reply with quote

but even if you COULD know, would it matter?

not really. in fact, alot of knowledge dosn't matter. but hey, we eat it up, don't we?
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 12:54 pm  Reply with quote

indeedy we do, but we never ever stop to think/realize what we are actually taking in. after all, we still cant prove thats its completely right, yet that is.

besides knowledge is like most evidence - circumstantial.
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Datura
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 3:43 am  Reply with quote

thoth87 wrote:
some of them may be, yes, but for the most part, i feel that dreams are your mind's true capabilities released and excercised, which it needs to do, before you wake up, supress your mind's true abilities, and go on auto-pilot for the rest of the day. (at least some of us go on autopilot. the most of us on this site, i think, are some of the lucky few that actually live through their day... and realize what they're doing).
well, there it is.


Then how come so many people find it so hard to read things in their dreams? How come only certain parts of the brain are active during sleep, and others are not? How come many people dream in black and white, or silence, or single shades? Is the limiting of the senses in dreams an aspect of true potential, even though dreams are idealised (in a way I believe to be utterly over-romantic and false) as real-but not?

Sorry, but I don't think so. We still have this horrid post-renaissance idea of dreams as this perfect internal real-simulation that can trick us, which I don't think works. How can it be if we don't remember most of it? How can it be if the external (and therefore, integral) sensory receptors are made to mostly shut down, thus cutting down a large part of sensory experience? No, I don't believe this "It's all in the mind" Post-Descartes garbage. Sue me :P
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thoth87
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 8:45 am  Reply with quote

well, firstly, the brain and the mind are two totally different things. weather only certain parts of the brain are working are irrelevant as to weather the mind is opperating in full. also, some people can't read what they dream of, and some only dream in black and white, etc... but that's what they remember. you dream all night, and i'll bet a five that you can't remember half of what you dremt last night. hell, i never remember what i dream... the one i had described earlier in this post is probably the last one i can remember...

or not.

anywho...
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Zenzirouj
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:21 am  Reply with quote

I really don't think that there's any interior meaning to dreams...while they may have some kind of supernatural connection, I think their primary purpose is to keep the mind occupied at night. I don't think that our brains really can shut themselves off, they always need to be doing something.


My triumphant return! Woo!
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