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AceBandit44
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 12:26 pm  Reply with quote

I too though that there could be another level to the matrix , but I soon realized one flaw in that idea. If there was another level to the matrix or even if there was 1000000000 other levels , then NEO MORPHEUS TRINNITY all of them would still be plugged into a pod somewhere , and would be absolutly no threat to the program. They would still think there in reality , and not be, same as anyone in any level of the matrix.

So with that im going to have to say that neo has somehow connected himself to the bots , and can now in some ways control them . He is part of them . And same goes for him and Smith , something happened at the end of th first movie , and its like they imbedded themselves into the code of the matrix.

just my thoughts....
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 12:32 pm  Reply with quote

heh, i just started a post about this called "is enlightenment even possible" and my thoughts on that in detail are there, but heres a summary for this thread:

if indeed the matrix is infinite, then enlightenment isnt really possible, because when one becomes enlightened and breaks away from one leve, they have to start over again and break through that one, and then the next, and then the next and so on. and with that theory, enlightenment is impossible, as is freeing oneself from the matrix.

you can almost think of the matrix as a MMORPG this way, because you can go to many different areas, and in and out of those areas, so is this just a game to the machines? and is it a game to the humans that are plugged into the matrix? and if it is, do they even know about it? and if they do, did they themselves choose to do it rather than stay in the broken world that covered the surface?
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AceBandit44
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 12:41 pm  Reply with quote

The idea "There is no spoon" literally says it all. Neo is only as enlightened as his mind will let him be . He realized that Nothing is real , thats the first step . If he fully realized that , he would then realize that he doesnt even need to fight things like agents . If he could realize it he could destroy an agent by blowing on him , or looking at him. Possibly even bring down the entire matrix and or matrixesss just buy realizing the idea "There is no spoon " to its fullest.

The only things neo does have to worry about are people like agent Smith because he has somehow broken away from the matrix and become his own entity , maybe like his own self matrix because he is also not real.

If u notice smith is now somewhat like a virus within the matrix , hes slowly taking over the matrix person by person. man this is wierd everytime I think up one thing , it bring a million other possibilities to the table . I wonder if the wachowski brother even realize all the possibilites .


Trippy !!!!!!! ps I know I cant spell


Last edited by AceBandit44 on Wed May 28, 2003 2:55 pm; edited 2 times in total
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 12:45 pm  Reply with quote

yes, thats it exactly (once again i say this) he is only as enlightened as he lets himself be. maybe he just doesnt want to be so extraordinary that he can blow on things and erase them from the system, because then he would be on par with (a) God. and humanity is afraid of any God that has been presented to them thoughout history, because they seem capable of superhuman feats in terms of both violence/hate and peace/love.

and also, there are always going to be limits, regardless of how hard you work. its exceedingly hard to truly become one with the universe.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 6:15 am  Reply with quote

heh, dont worry, the editing is the best thing here!

and i just thought of another thing: what if not only agent smith is a virus, what if neo is as well? perhaps he is just as much of a problem to the system as any one/thing that exists? if he actually was it would be quite ironic how their savior that can end their suffering is in fact a simple virus that got a physical body.

one can use agent smith logging out into someone else's body as an example of this.
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Cam
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 11:21 am  Reply with quote

There are still laws within the Matrix.
When Neo and the others choose to enter in the Matrix they enter knowing that there are laws that are inherent to the program that cannot be broken. The program itself has boundaries. The agents weren't able to do things the "enlightened" Neo was able to do simply because they weren't programmed with all knowledge of the laws of the matrix. Agents are only programmed to do certain things within certain boundaries.

This is an anology of the same physical reality we exist in.
Phenomena is governed by certain laws that cannot be broken.
There is a specific manner in which things materialize.

It's a person's level of awareness that determines what they are capable of within the structure of physical existence.

The more of an understanding and knowledge you have of how the physical is an illusion and how it simply reflects whats going on spiritually,
the "higher" your level of awareness.


Even in our reality, there is no such thing as a spoon.
At a quantum physics level we all break down to one constant flow of atoms/energy. There literally is no seperation between me and you.
That's why when they show Neo's point of view in the Matrix it all looks like flowing code.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2003 6:00 pm  Reply with quote

really? i prefer to think of it in a different light. the matrix, at its core, is a computer program, nothing more, nothing less. the primary factor OF a computer program is its ability to....REprogram it.

it seems to me that Neo can see the code simply because thats how he chooses to see it, and is able to alter it based on it. for all we know he could have chosen to see porn ads floating up and down everywhere, and he could still change it accordingly.

and regarding the agents, they can do the same things that Neo does, yet they simply have not broken their program and begun to experiment for themselves yet. if they did do things and think for themselves, then THAT would truly suck for the free humans. however at least the guys that the agents posess would live longer...

i guess theres a pro and con to every equation.
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Sky
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:57 pm  Reply with quote

exactly, otherwise what would an equation be???? smith is neo's opposite, but maybe neo is smiths opposite, which is the nagative and which is the positive, the virus and the cure, in the last film we are told that they are opposites, but which way around???

Also, i agree with ace bandit that if neo believed enough he could simply just blow on the agents, but thats no fun is it, you need action in a film, lots of fighting and guns!!

And something iv said before, if any free human believed enough they could be like "the one", if they believed they could fly like neo etcetc, whats stopping them???

the only thing that is, is the fact that noe is called the one, its all hyped up and therefore if every one believes he is meant to be special and he believes he is special he will be, but everyone else could just put this all aside, he only believes he is special because the oracle told, him - you know like she told him what he needed to hear to make him determinned..... everyone had the ability to be like neo, only they werent "the one" so the believed they couldn't.

my head teacher always says:

you think you can, your right,
you think you cant, your right
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Sky
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 12:56 pm  Reply with quote

nah, i rekkon i know what it is, its like when your really excited to go on holiday and you save up all your money n stuff, and when your there you forget how much effort it took to save up and..........actually no, you still rememer, thanks if you can figure it out thoth, ur me *
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thoth87
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2004 5:57 pm  Reply with quote

no one cares about the actual trouble you went through to get somewhere or make something, they just care about the end product. like no one cares how much practice it must have taken Bruce Lee to be the baddest bad ass ever publicized, but they sure do love his movies.
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RIRYOKU
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 12:26 pm  Reply with quote

Yo,
In the very first post of this thread, whoever wrote it (sorry, in my excitement to share my opinion I didn't notice the author's name) stated that the world Neo and Trinity thought was real (the darkened sky, Zion, the Squidies) could not be another Matrix. You said there was not a Matrix inside another Matrix because if Neo and Trinity were in a Matrix (which would explain Neo stopping the Machines with his hand) than they would still be plugged into pods somewhere and would not be a treat to the Machines. If the Machines are in the same world as Neo, then those Machines would not be real, in a sense, they would be part of the Matrix. Maybe there is the real world, a Matrix, and a Matrix. The real world has... well, we don't know. The Matrix has Neo and Trinity and the rest of Zion plugged in, believing that they are in a war against the Machines. Then there is the Matrix that the people all ready plugged into the Matrix go when they want to meet, or feel like they're in the real world. I think that there is only one Matrix at a time. I don't think that there is a Matrix inside another Matrix, but I do believe it is possible.
Take Care
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Sky
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 12:53 pm  Reply with quote

yes but, whats the need of 2 matrix's if the architect only controls one of em, there is no need
yes the real world and the matrix are connected, but theres no need, for 2
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RIRYOKU
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:11 pm  Reply with quote

Ya, that is a good point, there is no need for 2.
Here's a question, why (in The Matrix Reloaded) did the Architect (forgive my mis spelling) tell Neo to gather 17 people from Zion? The People in the Matrix would be fine in the Matrix, and the Architect shouldn't want Neo to rebuild Zion because the Machines are trying to kill Zion. Unless, we recognize both wars. The war between the humans and the Machines, and the war between the programs and the Machines. Like how the Oracle explains that a program can go back to the source, or can choose to live in the Matrix. I forgot my point.... oh, so the Program, the Architect, doesn't mind people being outside of the Matrix. Just the Machines mind the city of Zion. (You see, the Machines made the Architect which is a program, to create another program, the Matrix.) Why does Neo have to choose 17 people to restart Zion. Will Zion be destroyed by the war between humans and machines? Why choose 17 people to do... what exactly?
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Sky
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:28 pm  Reply with quote

ye, the architect plays both hands, its like a game hes playin, like if you ever try to play chess on your own, you try to do it fairly but you alweays end up makin one side win,

(not that iv ever played chess on my own, just an example)

where r u from???
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RIRYOKU
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 6:39 pm  Reply with quote

Thanks. I still don't quite understand, but the chess example helps. I'm from Virginia.
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