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revolut
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:47 pm  Reply with quote

Why is Youre mind the only truth that i can see? Can you ansewer me?
I don't write english very well. I'm Portuguese...
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~[W]DeLuSioN~
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 1:29 pm  Reply with quote

Our mind is the only outlet of truth. Subconciously, we are all led to believe what is false, and consequently we all speak what is false. If it was at all possible to really have a conversation with someone, without actually speaking, or even seeing them; lies would be non-existant.
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Soulless
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 1:37 pm  Reply with quote

The truth is but enigma you will never know it in tell. You understand your self and wake you mind to every thing. Otherwise you are a dreamer in a dramless dream.
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~[W]DeLuSioN~
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 1:41 pm  Reply with quote

Soulless wrote:
The truth is but enigma you will never know it in tell. You understand your self and wake you mind to every thing. Otherwise you are a dreamer in a dramless dream.


Soulless, if the truth is enigma... why is it so easy to figure out? Everybody knows how to tell the truth. Whether they do so or not, is a subconcious disease that I like to call fear. People are afraid to tell the truth, of being singled out and shunned. Your crap about dreamers in a dreamless dream is not even close to a reply! Listen, right now, I'm feeling that YOU are afraid to speak right. F00! 8)
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morph
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2003 7:21 am  Reply with quote

Quote:
why is it so easy to figure out?

Easy? hardly. Many wise men spend long years on their rocks trying to do just that. And how many actually reach it (enlightenment)?
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thoth87
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2003 8:45 am  Reply with quote

The only reason that we are not apt to tell the truth, is because we are born into a society in which we are taught not to tell the truth. We are all capable of truthful thought and comunicaton, but it is taught out of us. someone lies, so it's alright for me to lie, because that's what we are taught: if they can do it, so can I.
As for truth and enlightenment, there is no connection between the two ideals other than this: enlightenment is a higher form of truth which we all subconciously seek. We know it's their, even though we can't see it. Some seek it through worship, some through contemplation, some by perfecting and studying a certain ideal which they belive will ultimately lead to enlightenment. truth is simply that which is not false, twisted, tainted or a flat-out lie. there are no un-truths, only that which is true, and that which isn't.

I'll get off of my soap-box now...
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the "ist"
PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2003 8:12 am  Reply with quote

I aggree with thoth??? on this in the sense that we as beings in such an imperfect society are conditioned against telling the truth, corruption and rebellion are often more inticing than truth or reality.
As for truth and reality, they are both things that exist on an entirely higher plane. We will never know the ultimate truth for our definitions of it and reality exist in accordance to our experiences and growth as beings. That said, the truth is only what we perceive it to be.
Enlightenment is what you get if and when you find the "ultimate" truth, so yes they are related......if you believe it all exists
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 12:15 pm  Reply with quote

the mind is the only truth that you can see because its all personal preference and choice. The person themself can choose how their mind develops, and others can choose how they influence it. It is based on the choices and decisions that can be made and which ones are chosen in the end. There can really be no truth, because in all honesty there is no one truth, there are so many options that can be truth.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2003 12:53 pm  Reply with quote

delusion is right, that if indeed people could have conversations without meeting face to face and indeed without having any actual interaction, then lies would not exist. However, one must take into account that humans are social creatures, and that many of them need interaction to retain and control their sanity. your statement kind of reminds me of political theory. in theory it works, but in order for it TO work, humans must evolve quite a lot to accomodate it. This probably wont happen, because humans have the ability to change their environment as opposed to evolution. It is true and life would be much better overall if humans COULD do that, but since we cant, its just another dream. Dreaming is also fine to do because when people cannot change enough in one way, they can dream and they then can be as such. Dreams are vital for humans, for two reasons. First, they can dispel harsh realities that they face in everyday life, and second they can use it to become enlightened through messages from their own mind and perhaps the work of a greater , more mysterious power's influence. (not necessarily any God, however powerful nonetheless)
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kill_the_sophism
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2003 10:48 am  Reply with quote

Wow guys, i trully freak out reading some of ur bullshit.... The one who said that what is not false is the truth should think that over deeper coz the non-false is just barely the reflection of the truth at the formal condition that u don't consider the truth as a concept as a certain Einstein did (which was a bit dangerous given his much higher IQ). I suggest that you read (again?) the 6th book of The Republic especially when he does all his metaphores between the Good and the Sun etc.. It's just .....so :idea: !!!
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 9:53 am  Reply with quote

Well heres some advice for you: its a forum to get ideas out, so anything goes, and maybe we get freaked out reading some of YOUR bullshit, perhaps? yes? :shock: in any case youve got a good point. The non false im assuming is the physical world when i say this, but based on that you are right. The truth that can be percieved does get recognized as the physical world, and there are indeed many different ways to look upon it, the scientific way (einsteins) being one of them. other ways include religious, apathetic, awe, and a host of others, its just open to the person to choose how they want to view it.
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thoth87
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 8:25 am  Reply with quote

you tell 'em beestie! but i have a few things to add to your statement.

you said that the phisical world is understood as truth, when isn't the physical world nearly as false as a lie? how do we know that we are not living a lie, as they do in the Matrix?

but if this is a real, actual world, then we are lied to constantly by our minds, a part of the physical world. for example, you see a cardboard cutout in a storefront window. your mind tells you it is real, but as you approach you suddenlly realize that it is a 2 dimensional image on a piece of cardboard. you're standing on a hill, and your mind calculates that you have about a mile's walk to the nearest town, but it turns out that there was only a quarter-mile journey. it takes you approximately 15 minutes to reach the town, but your mind tells you it took much longer, perhaps an hour or two, even though your watch says otherwise.

of course, this all has to do with point of view, the 'two sides to any situation' deal. we all have a different view, a different estimate, a different idea. there is no perfect, because no one can agree on perfection as we all have different ideas on it. if there is no agreement on anything, and we all see and interprate something different, then there is no reality. we all see something different, and so it coulden't exist, or else we would all see the same thing.

at least, this is what our laws of science tell us.

the poor, poor fools.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2003 12:06 pm  Reply with quote

when i said that the physical world was the truth, i was basing it on his statement, not what i myself think.

and that is true that the laws of science tell us that, however what do they tell us about alternative realities, temporal relocation, and colonizing uninhabitable planets? they say that they are generally impossible. however, if you dont try someting, how can it be proven as true or false?

thats one of the many flaws with science: they arent freely open to any other ideas without solid proof.

oh well, i guess its like what they say: if gods a big chicken, we're all screwed.
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Cam
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 9:51 am  Reply with quote

O.K. To whom it may concern.
First let me say that if you're in this forum it's no coincidence.
And the one's ready to receive this message will. If it means nothing to you or angers you... Please discard it and take it as mere b/s.

What I perceive to be witnessing here is a tangle of intellects thats getting all knotted up.

What must be understood is that when we try and explain things in a physical manner it never makes sense. This is because we can only express our own levels and angles of perception through our intellect.
And our intellect is limited to the physical plane. It does not transcend into the spiritual plane. Our intellect is a product of our mind's programming to accept the physical plane as the absolute.
And our individual perceptions are never stagnent. That is to say they are constantly in motion. Our perceptions of whats going on around us are constanlty changing..

(This rabbit hole goes much deeper but I've said enough to make my point)

The point is, you all are wasting your time getting caught up in intellectual
conversations. All of you are as right as you are wrong. And if true enlightment is what you seek. Practice not thinking and just be.

Trust me I know from experience. I struggle w/ it everyday.
When we concentrate on freeing our mind's we go about letting go of our mental attachments to physical concepts. (In other words our intellect)

And trust me, the more you free your mind the easier it is to follow your heart. And it's your heart that the compass that leads you down YOUR path to enlightenment!

But, I could be totally wrong :)
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thoth87
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2003 1:22 pm  Reply with quote

your point is valid, and well backed up. but we are not having a battle or any such thing, we are simply attempting to enlighten each other on our views on life. we are doing so with intelect, the only phisical outlet discovered that even comes close to what we want to do.

as for just being, simply existing, there is no good reason to do so. rocks and trees exist, but they don't live. we were made to do something, and although i'm not sure what, i am pretty sure that it can't be done by not living. we are gifted, like it or not. we feel pleasure, pain, love, hate. an entire spectrum and a half of emotions is open to us, and to not use it would be a terrible thing to waste. when we find true enlightenment, and let ourselves go, we will not need to live, nor will we need to use such crude tools as intelect.

but until then, we are stuck with what we have.
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