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The Renagade Blue
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2003 7:32 pm  Reply with quote

as for God/science:
i do agree they do appear to tangle
but, look at it this way, please
the creation of the universe cannot be explained (nor can parallel universes or any other one of those theories) but if we can accept that for some reason ther was a point of matter containing all the substance of the universe, then we can explain almost all the general stuff after that. but first we have to accept that something put that point there, so the reason why the universe began falls into the realm of "religion" and the universe as a whole falls into the realm of "science"
miracles... we cant explain them either, (well some of them we think we can, but it's usually because we made something up), a miracle is an advertised version of some good thing that happened that we couldnt possibly explain, (keep in mind though, im sure unexplainable bad things happen every once in a while also).
as a whole, the entire universe can be explained by the realm science, but every once in a while, science runs into something it cant explain, say, a miracle. this thing would fall into the realm of religion
now death, we know why ppl die, science explains that to us easily, but what happens when we die? no one knows, science cant even try to explain that, if you say "hey, ill kill you and you tell me what it's like", then youre gonna have one unhappy person, if they accually die, there's no possiblitity of them coming back, so again why you die is science, and what happens after is religion
i see no tangling

BUT
\/
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2003 12:39 pm  Reply with quote

thats it right there. thoth you and renegade pointed it out right there: what if you're wrong.

"What ifs" are the thing. theres always a what if, and theres always an "in case of " and "maybe"s. nothing is for certain, and nothing is concrete, for example:

things are only as they seem. in my opinion. i see everything as having a soul of its own. not merely the scientific view that its a bunch of clustered atoms. i do realize that that is more likely than not all that it is. however, i do believe what i believe, and until someone can prove it wrong in its entirity, then i will keep on believing.

and in these kinds of instances, neither side can prove the other completely wrong. half of religion and half of science is interpretation. and interpretation is choice: a huge flaw in some ways, and a savior in others
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Cam
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 12:19 pm  Reply with quote

Buddhism is where science and religion meet.
Everything that science has found in terms of hard physical evidence of different levels of existence (i.e. matter, molecules, etc.)....

Buddhism describes in detail, but through direct experience of "higher"states of consciousness. Mind you, thousands of years ago.
Through, the intent to transcend the physical, the true nature of phenomena, became realized. (And the spiritual realm is said to be beyond any level of phenomena)

There are more parrallels between science and buddhism than any other religion. I believe this is because as other levels of physical existence were experienced, they recorded their experiences exactly as it happened.

For example, scientists are realizing that a lot of quantum physics has already written about and described in buddhist texts.
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Cam
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 12:23 pm  Reply with quote

Whether you Identify yourself as christian, hindu, buddhist, muslim, jewish, satanist...
These labels do not matter. One of you said that relationships are what's real.
And you would be correct in saying so regardless of identifying with any of those respective religions.
But the fact that you made that particular statement reveals where you are at spiritually.
To someone else that statement could be not only false but totally incomprehensible.
It simply breaks down to where a person is at spiritually in their development.

I do want to make light of the fact that there are similarities that can be found in all of these
religions I've mentioned. And with all due respect to christians on this board, there are things
within the satanic bible that are also in the christian bible. But I use that as just an example.

I don't identify with any one of these religions specifically. I go on experience alone.
And the one thing that I've found constant in all of them is an affinity at least for your "religious" brother.
In other words LOVE. (Yes satanist too! The concepts are there. But hidden in selfish reasoning)
Love is what's constant. IN THE SCRIPTURES ONLY THOUGH!.

I know people of all the religions I've mentioned and they all belong to certain sects of their "base" religion.
And we all know that these arise from differences in interpretation of scriptures.
Christians have many different 'sects'. Satanist and buddhists do too.

And with the exception of buddhism and satanism, all of these religions restrict the "promised land" to
souls that walk their faith's path and it alone.

With that being said, I do see buddhism and satanism on opposite ends of the extremes.
At the core of both religions they provide sound techniques and training of thought
to accomplish your goals, without limiting you to a specific path to walk.
Your path is your path in these religions. And they don't believe in bad or good, right or wrong.

But buddhism's intent is on becoming selfless. Relinquishing the illusion. Letting go of the physical. Returning to the "Source".
Satanism is the direct opposite. Totally involved in the ego. Manipulating the physical to your will. And indulging in it.

My intents and purposes in life just happen to lean towards whats described in buddhism. :)
But that's just my little part in it all. After all there must be balance, right?
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 1:10 pm  Reply with quote

perhaps, but there will eventually be a time where there is no balance and one reigns over all and influences everywhere. i mean take the US for example, we prettymuch are the world government, without the official title.

I truly hope that if this does happen with a religion, that it does happen with buddhism, because it does incorporate everything so well. however sometimes things dont happen like they should, so that everything happens much more simply, so id have to say that satanism would probably take over just to spite humanity.

I mean if we are part of the matrix, the machines gotta have a bit of fun every once in a while right? i mean we do have the same flaws in the end.
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thoth87
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 8:32 am  Reply with quote

religion is not one of my strong points, but based on experience, i'd have to say that in this day in age, Buddism (SP) is about the only religion that is not comercialized.

Easter eggs, christmas presants, zen fountains, Yoga classes, it all has some sort of monetary attachments somewhere, some 'strings attatched'. Buddism is letting go of the physical, so what need for money is there? all you need is your mind, body and spirit.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 10:00 am  Reply with quote

perhaps all of the physical views and values are based on the fact that most people prize things like this over all others. this could be another "matrix" in a sense, because you do not control your posessions in the end, they control you.

at least, thats what winds up happening more often than not in cases throughout history. (take a look at all major wars, what were they over? territory, physical posession)
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the "ist"
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 10:49 pm  Reply with quote

how can science possibly tangle with religion.....yes they occasionally meet in places, perhaps simply to both explain things that neither can, in concrete anyway.
Science and religion are two apposing belief systems, one based on fact, one on belief.....they can hardly tangle when they are from different foundations...
Take this analogy, in mathematics you can not add or subtract one fraction from/to another if they have different denominators
2/3 + 8/9............science/fact + religion/faith
both can exist, but neither can cancel another for they stem from different bases. How can one battle another or tangle with another if they dont exist on the same level or in the same form?
an explanation would be accepted...my word isnt law, i know that
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the "ist"
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 10:56 pm  Reply with quote

HA HA HA i just realised those fractions i wrote ha ha ha...anyway u get what i was trying to say
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The Renagade Blue
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 1:33 am  Reply with quote

i agree with the ist on this one, i was going to say something almost identical but i had some trouble with some kindof invalid session thing...
anyway, i dont think they tangle either...
here's annother way of putting it
I think almost everything else can be debated but these:
I came in to existance from a state where i did not exist phisically
I presently do exist
I will, at some point, stop existing and move somewhere else

becoming:
i know how i became what i am right now, how i was born, all of that, but i dont know at why i accually stared existing
what= science
why= religion

being:
i know what i am right now, who i am, all that, but i dont know why i am what i am, i will never understand some of the things that have happened to me
what= science
why= religion

ending:
i know what is going to happen to me, i WILL die, but i dont know why i must die, why i must change from this life
again,
what= science
why= religion

i think both religion and science have their own ground and, while you may be able to balance on one for a while, in the end you'll need two places to put you're feet
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 6:24 am  Reply with quote

hmm, thats a good point, and its actually the primary idea of this entire forum. you need to have more points of view than just one in order to become truly enlightened, because if you only have one "truth" then what of the other possible "truths" out there? i place truth in quotations because truth is all based on personal interpretation. i myself happen to believe in many things that others may not, like all people regardless of race, religion, sexual preference, etcetera. (yes, that IS how you spell the word).

i know that there are those out there who believe differently, and i am able to believe what i do in part based on the mistakes that religion has made in history, in part on facts that i have been taught in science about how little our differences are, and in part with interation with these kinds of people and understanding more about them.

after all, our lives are only what me make them, and id rather have mine be perfect in my views than anything else, and it might even take presidence above enlightenment somtimes. and thats an interesting question to put forth right now. what if people choose not to become enlightened not because they are ignorant or focused on material things, but because they have the desire to help people and made a difference here? its an interesting thought, because even though it does seem like nobody is doing anything, there are more people than you think out there helping other people, regardless of what you see on television and movies. and this may be just another one of my crazy beliefs, but i think humans are better than we give ourselves credit for, and we'll always wind up together in the end, no matter what we do or hope, we'll all become united someday.
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The Renagade Blue
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 7:34 am  Reply with quote

once again i agree, our truth is what we make it, our facts are what we think, (while there still is a difference between thinking and knowing), and people are definatly not as bad as they make themselves look
by the way, way to spell... i could never spell that word, then again, what if im wrong?
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 7:50 am  Reply with quote

hmmm, how do we know i actually spelled it right? how do we know if the word even exists at all? we dont and for that matter i dont think we can! after all, words are just one form of human expression, and there are so many other things that one can do to make the same points.

and another thing that one can realize is that words were made without different views on the subject. whatever the first person called something was basically just accepted (more likely than not), and then what if someone else had thought of something entirely different? we could be calling doors zoombas you know!
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The Renagade Blue
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 8:18 am  Reply with quote

point taken, because from what ive heard, i dont think youre one of those old men that dont ever make points, i certainly am not, but i guess that can be debated also, can't it?
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2003 12:50 pm  Reply with quote

whares mah cane! whares mah cane! whares my *wack* owch!

that aside, maybe i am really just a crazy old loon *note: im really 16* in a different dimension, after all how do we know that this is the only path of existance?
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