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thoth87
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 6:33 pm  Reply with quote

what do you mean, er? explain your last paragraph, if you will.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:58 pm  Reply with quote

i THINK *key word* that he's trying to say that by expressing your own views and debating about a given thing, you destroy the ability for someone to view something from its core meaningless and unanalyzed state.

I must say that it does make a lot of sense. its why i dont believe in reading and quoting "famous" philosophers. while they may have been the first people to write it down, i'll bet you a whole assload that they weren't the first people to come up with the idea. Thats why i myself choose to believe what i do based on what i see, even if it seems exceedingly naive and childish sometimes.

That any help?
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The Er
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:10 am  Reply with quote

Nightbeest is mainly right about the last paragraph, but alos i was trying to express how something cannot truely be expressed in words, because words themselves are just certain symbols strung together toexpress certain mainly excepted objects, thought and feelings (Language)and allow for a adequate level of comunication, but can never mean anything more than the words themselves.

In general, using a predetermined language is amazingly useful, both in comunication, learning, and teaching.
But when it comes to expressing some certain things, such as God, the infinite, and higher forces, it is impossible to properly convey your ideas, your experiences, and the truth, when all you have to describe such things are simple soundsand symbols, from which we derive our own meanings and understanding.

It might be a little more understandable if i say it this way.

Do you think it's possible to describe the feeling of true enlightenment simply in words?
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thoth87
PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 2:47 pm  Reply with quote

nope. enlightenment is.

that's all i got

and i completely agree with you.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:06 pm  Reply with quote

no, but it can at least be described to the best ability of the individual and how they percieve it. while it might be a good description based on the things we know, it can never really convey all of the feeling that one might get when they become. i mean its a yes and no answer, but thats the way it is in the end i guess.
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Sky
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:17 pm  Reply with quote

And also, the way people percieve things is entirely different, everybody is unique. and therefore have unique views and experences in life (to a certain extent) however the way i would describe enligtenment is probably completely different to the way thoth, the er, beest or....any1 wud describe it.
Its all down to how your mind works.

Some people look deep into thing, whilst others meerly the surface, they see what they want to see, hear what they want to hear, believe what they want to believe and ultimately understand what they want to understand.
U can describe perfectly in words the meaning of enlightenment (if its possible) and the person would still only hear what they want to hear, and interpret it in their way. A way in which they will understand. either in a complex way or simple way.

The answer to all this is not in words, it is in thought.

afterall what you think isnt alway what you say and what you say not always what you think.

people are taught to lie. (dunno wot it has 2 do with the topic but ah well)
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thoth87
PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 3:31 pm  Reply with quote

this is true, the answer does lie in what you think, but perhaps we only think the answer is different, and it really is the same for everyone.

perhaps the egg is really, despite what everyone percieves (a life waiting to happen, an item on the denny's menu, etc.) is really just an egg.

and also, you're right, people are taught to lie... unless this is in fact our nature. if you look to the wild, then it is natural for many animals to lie. many species of butterfly mimic the Monarch in wing pattern to fake out potential predators. coral snakes are mimicked all the time (or is it the coral snake doing the mimicry? i can never remember) and the list goes on. maybe lying is more natural than once thought...
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2004 7:47 am  Reply with quote

Well, deception is a natural way for animals to survive. It's just one of those things we use to escape trouble (in all of it's realtive forms) when it cometh.

It's like something I read in a book somewhere, don't remember the exact title, but it was an interesting aspect taken as to why people crap themselves when they're afraid or in danger. It was (according to the book) to be more mobile, to lighten the body so as to get the !@#$ outta the place that you're about to be creamed in! I mean seriously, think about it, and it actually might be a logical analyzation!

Hmm, not a bad digression from the lying thing if I do say so myself!
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thoth87
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:23 pm  Reply with quote

logic is pretty stupid, pal. i don't like logic. logic only works in theory, and in theory, i could be your mother.

don't ask for the logic, because i got none, and i am rambling

"I just keep rambling
now's the time, the time is now
sing my song
yea, yeaaa
ramble on
sing my song"
-Led Zepplin, Ramble On

WAH!
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 4:59 pm  Reply with quote

Well as long as we're quoting songs, an old Travis Tritt one comes to mind...one of the few ones I like actually! Really only one line has relevance:

So down the road I go.

'Nuff said, really, the story of our lives.
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thoth87
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2004 9:04 pm  Reply with quote

maybe your life, but i'm going up the road... with a paddle.

you see,

"i'm the one that's gotta die when it's time for me to die
so let me live my life
the way I want to"
-Jimi Hendrix

that is my all time favorite quote. YAY!
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:10 pm  Reply with quote

And I'm going down the road with an outboard! See again?
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Sky
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 3:37 pm  Reply with quote

but did you choose the road??????

id actually prefer to run down the road, im too impatient, or sail coz its fun, or horseride coz i can........ i cud just walk???
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thoth87
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2004 7:10 pm  Reply with quote

"I will choose the path that's clear,
I will choose freewill!"

so i suppose i chose the clear path...

less work with the shovel after all.




[snow]
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2004 11:26 am  Reply with quote

And I, personally, moonwalk and booty dance down the road! Much more fun that way! You should try it!
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