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KRM
PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:30 pm  Reply with quote

Just something I'll put out there for y'all to pick apart

Every possible choice you could ever make exists right now. This is because for one thing to exist, it’s opposite must also. So for you to choose the experience of now, the experience of then must exist in another reality for it to be a legitimate choice. This is what free choice is. Everything that can ever happen is all happening right now. It is our consciousness that separates the experiences and gives us the perception of this particular “time”. It has all happened in every conceivable way, it’s just that you are not conscious of the other realities. This is necessary for the illusion of duality to exist.
The more you give up the ego and realise that we are all one and there is only one collective consciousness, the more you raise your consciousness and start to remember that that is the only perspective that matters. To consciously exist, you have to choose to move back to the eternal perception or you’re just taking on the viewpoints of others and building on their perspectives. Without the higher self (or soul, which is the collective memory of all our experience) we are but an illusion. The only truth is that we are all one and any other reality is just a fabrication made up of that particular vibration in consciousness. This is why the higher your consciousness, the closer to truth you come and the more you realise there is an ultimate reality you are a part of. For the higher self to be conscious of it’s existence, it must have an illusion of it’s non-existence. It cannot not exist as it is all there is, so it needs to create the illusion of duality…which is what we exist as. We are just the experience of the oneness experiencing separation. When you move back to the oneness, you remember that you never really left and the cycle is complete. There are always those that are separate and this is necessary and they do it willingly to give the oneness the polarity, or illusion thereof, of that which it is not.
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thoth87
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:40 pm  Reply with quote

why can't the universe (if it's all there is) exist without 'us'? are you saying that there HAS to be an opposite for something to exist? why?
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transport22
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:35 pm  Reply with quote

I'm kinda doing a recap from Eckhart Tolle's book, The Power of Now.

To 'exist' literally means to stand out. Stand out from what? Stand out from space, from silence, from nothing (no-thing). He calls this the Unmanifest, a no-realm of no-thing from which the Manifest flows forth from.

Sounds arises from silence, rides upon silence, and then falls back into silence. Objects, events, people, stuff are all form, but can only be defined as far as the space that allows them to be. All form in the Universe is temporal. But space, in and of itself, is a no-thing...so it lasts because it's not really there, although we attempt to define it with a mental label.

So, I believe that for something to exist, to stand out, it must have an opposite....because it's 'standing out' against 'no-thing'. The movement from no-thing to some-thing is a relationship, which is the birth of duality, and all relationships have built within them a 'form' of polarization. Vibration and opposite vibration 'being' both 'something' and 'Manifest'. This is part of the challenge of being Manifest....being a creative, expressive force of existence, of Manifestation, and, at the same time, to be anchored to the only real reality, the Unmanifest.....which is not really 'real' at all. Hence, from my own experience and beliefs, the Universe can only be found in the eye of the paradox. Which I call the <cough><cough> @#$*sport. = )

The book is amazing and unlike the jumbled words my cluttered mind produced above.
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Sky
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2004 11:39 am  Reply with quote

thoth87 wrote:
why can't the universe (if it's all there is) exist without 'us'? are you saying that there HAS to be an opposite for something to exist? why?


without somethings opposite it doesn't exist, how can we concieve what it is if we cant compare it to something??? like transport said, it needs to be separate but still in a relationship with something, if its not that its nothing.

how would we know what pleasure is if we've never felt pain to compare it too?? would pleasure exist???
NO.
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thoth87
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 10:23 am  Reply with quote

I belive it would, actually. and I also believe that Pleasure and Pain are not opposites, indeed, people have been known to derive pleasure FROM pain. what is the opposite of my hand? I don't know of anything to be a compareable opposite, save for it's counterpart on the other side, but even then, it's the same 'thing', just flipped. I know of no-one who is my opposite, nor of anything compareable to be an opposite of me. not saying these things dont' exist, but I don't think there has to be an opposite for there to be something. that opposite just makes whatever it's opposite of seem much more (or less) preferable. EXAMPLE: if you could not feel pain, and yet you expereienced pleasure, you would know what pleasure was. then suddenly, you can (and do) feel pain. that pleasure seems a whole lot more pleasureable.
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TheMan
PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:49 pm  Reply with quote

I agree with thoth on most of his points. You don't necesarily have to feel something's opposite to appreciate that something...most of the time. Some contradictory evidence would be looking at spoiled rich kids. Being born into riches, one can't REALLY appreciate the joy that comes out of wealth the same way someone who has won the lottery, or even better, used to be homeless. Sometimes we need a frame of reference, since alot of things in the world, and universe, are relative, not absolute.
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Sky
PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:13 am  Reply with quote

well, i didnt mean things like your hand, i meant for a feeling to exist, something you cant see with your eyes.
like love, or fear or hate or passion or pleasure etcetcetc
and the rich kids, they may never have felt poverty, the feeling of being homeless etc, but they know what it is to compare it to their lives.

Like if you feel pleasure, without pain you wont know what it is. it will just be a feeling, it wont be a specific one.


(and now its pouring it down and i have to walk to band..... the sun was out before.... why is it always the way?!?!?)
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transport22
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 9:08 am  Reply with quote

The concept of 'opposite' seems to have a paradox built within it.

On a dense level of existence (physicality) something can exist without an opposite....the quest for finding the opposite of something existing only on a mental level. If the mind is stilled, and an emotion or event is truly embraced and experienced in the NOW, there is nothing else but what IS.

And yet on a subtle, energetic level, and even on a mental one, anything that exists 'stands out' from no-thing. And the fact that something stands out or exists means that there's a pattern of energy involved, a Form that is Manifest...no matter how subtle (forgive the pun). Shouldn't it be possible then, and even highly probable, that there exists a pattern or formula of energy that is the direct opposite of anything that IS?
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KRM
PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:11 pm  Reply with quote

the way i look at it is like this:

we have free will
within our existence, everything is perfect...the timing of everything is precise and the movements of the planets affect every living consciousness unit in the universe.
How you are in relation to the movements of the universe is where free will comes in.
So for you to have total free will and the universe and every aspect of it to remain perfect ie. unmoved and whole no matter how you change, every possible outcome must exist simultaneously.

so all you're actually doing is shifting between parellel universes, depending on your choice of consciousness...the other option still exists as a whole experience, it's just that you've decided to move into this experience WHICH IS THE NOW
the "before" and "after" are just possible outcomes of a certain path of consciousness. The "now" is the conscious path you've chosen and depending on what kind of emotion you decide to live with, you'll either move towards the oneness or away from it
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thoth87
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:44 am  Reply with quote

Transport, if anything stands out from nothing, then by default, nothing is the opposite of anything. so the only true opposite of having pleasure is having no pleasure. this is bassicaly what I said, but I suppose in more of a straightforward thinking. I honestly never thought about it that way though. so then I have an opposite, and that is nothing. yea.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2004 5:31 pm  Reply with quote

The entire opposite thing is true, however "pleasure from pleasure" and "pleasure from pain" can be deemed opposites, in the literal sense, as can "pleasure from pleasure" and "pain from pain".

And the paradox itself relies on opposite/conflicting interests, interesting how that works.

And the whole humanistic view of "things can't exist unless humans are there" is just an ignorant view in my opinion, i'll elaborate and rant if anyone requests.
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thoth87
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:39 pm  Reply with quote

ELABORATE!

the tree will make a sound even if noone hears it fall. The mosquitos nest even if you don't see them lay eggs. Bears shit in the woods (among other places) even though you've never had the fortune to step in any. we're not required by anything but ourselves.
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transport22
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:20 pm  Reply with quote

KRM wrote:
we have free will
within our existence, everything is perfect...the timing of everything is precise and the movements of the planets affect every living consciousness unit in the universe.
How you are in relation to the movements of the universe is where free will comes in.
So for you to have total free will and the universe and every aspect of it to remain perfect ie. unmoved and whole no matter how you change, every possible outcome must exist simultaneously.


I agree KRM, except with the idea of perfection. The movements of the Universe only seem perfect because our lives are so short when we contrast them. If our lives were eternal (not saying they aren't) wouldn't the perfection of the celestial objects be observable as constantly evolving, changing, and unpredictable? Wouldn't the timing of the Universe wind down, or get off track a bit, or shift beyond prediction? As living, collective groups of consciousness, wouldn't planets, stars, and other bodies in space fluctuate between balance and the movement towards greater balance that life itself represents?

KRM wrote:
so all you're actually doing is shifting between parallel universes, depending on your choice of consciousness...the other option still exists as a whole experience, it's just that you've decided to move into this experience WHICH IS THE NOW
the "before" and "after" are just possible outcomes of a certain path of consciousness. The "now" is the conscious path you've chosen and depending on what kind of emotion you decide to live with, you'll either move towards the oneness or away from it


I, too, believe that one creates their reality by shifting their vibration and riding that vibration into alternate modes of NOW here on Earth; realities that resonate with the intentions we set about ourselves. And yet, the energies of those around us influence and can trap or liberate our energies further. So, to move into a parallel universe of our choosing, we must shift the very web that surrounds us. We must broadcast that desired vibration in our environments, and then ground and anchor it into the Earth herself.
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transport22
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:15 pm  Reply with quote

nightbeest77 wrote:
And the whole humanistic view of "things can't exist unless humans are there" is just an ignorant view in my opinion, i'll elaborate and rant if anyone requests.


Just wondering if anyone actually said this in an earlier post or if you were speaking from a more generalistic view of humanity at large?
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thoth87
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2004 8:36 am  Reply with quote

Frankly, I can't remember. I don't recall anything like that... but I could be wrong.
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