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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:33 pm  Reply with quote

The this moment, the next moment, the past moment, the moment in which you live in.
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TheMan
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:51 pm  Reply with quote

hmm. I think that all that we need to be worried about is the Here and Now. Hehe...That's kinda funny, since there seem to be some in the world who believe that alll there is and ever was IS the Here and Now. Still, planning for the future...how do you do that if that's what u believe? I think im contradicting myself. wow. oh well, I guess that's what u call learning...what I do know is that u guys can sure speculate the hell out of everything
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transport22
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:42 pm  Reply with quote

It's a paradox, and a mighty trick to master. My take is that, at a fundamental level, we are both completely who we are NOW and yet creating who we'll be (or were) at the same time, all time being NOW. It all happens in this space or realm or state called NOW, and the vibrations/thoughts/actions we project about reality NOW manifests how the future NOW is shaped, which is really the same NOW but with a new creative twist on our perception of energy.

Of course, seemingly in this Universe, we all share the same NOW but have many diverse takes on the vibrations we experience and broadcast. We call this discordant vibrational movement chaos, and our NOW seems to be permeated with it. Yet, from great chaos arises new order.
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Sky
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2004 5:14 pm  Reply with quote

ye we no what is the now, but how do we know that the past was our past, they are just memories, we have no real proof that it actually happened, except maybe photso, ok i just answered myself, but take it out of the equation, memories, what are they??? they could be made up, or false, or changed. The future can be predicted, but could very easily never come!!! Its all just, well, i dunno, it takes someting to be able to get your head around it, i think im almost there.

But hey, it takes all sorts. (my new phrase)
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thoth87
PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 10:04 pm  Reply with quote

I almost agree with you Transport... but I don't believe that order arises from chaos. chaos is chaos, and that's all there is to it. order is created from chaos not out of design (for that would make the chaos orderly) but by another's will, (your mind makes it real). how long such order lasts depends on how strong one is.

at least, that's my thought on that.
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TheMan
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:22 pm  Reply with quote

I think that our notion of what 'order' is is just another form of chaos.
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thoth87
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 7:29 pm  Reply with quote

if all is chaos, it has to be right?

but on a similar note, if all is order, chaos is just another subliminal order, right?
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Sky
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:21 am  Reply with quote

i think i get what thoth is saying, if order is just chaos, but in another form, that it is not ordered, it is chaos, so, its all chaos really, or vice-versa, chaos inst chaos at all its all order.

so, they arent the same, they are oposites, cant have one without the other so to speak, if we didnt have order what would we compare chaos to???? they arent the same.
chaos only leads to order if somebody out there doesnt like it, and changes it.

i prefer chaos, no control, and its more exciting!!!

(takes all sorts!)
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KRM
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:11 pm  Reply with quote

[quote]if all is chaos, it has to be right?

but on a similar note, if all is order, chaos is just another subliminal order, right?[/quote]

that's true

if you were a bird on a hill being demolished, u'd see chaos. If you were the worker, demolishing the hillside for a new road, u'd see order as u'd know the overall plan.

It is all about perspective.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 8:21 pm  Reply with quote

Precisely, but chaos spawns order and order spawns chaos. Take rebellions against government, chaos (fighting) spawns order (new governmet) and order (new government) causes chaos (different people fighting because they dont like the new way). Its what happens a lot of the time.
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TheMan
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2004 9:22 pm  Reply with quote

very true, it (as my dad likes to say alot) is all relative. Is there any absolute Order? Probably not. Just like there's no such thing as an absolute Truth. However, using our human experiences (boo, I know, but what else do we got?), we can determine whehter something is more choatic than another. I think this point of relativity should be emphasized more to the people who think that all beliefs are equal, and eveyone should be able to have them. I'm not a flaming conservatist, but let's just look at this logically. If my OWN belief is that all beliefs are equal, then that AUTOMATICALLY puts my belief above all others, simply because I believe in it. Therefore it is contradictory. Now, what's a guy to do? dont lose hope! you could still be able to put a value on things by looking at how one belief compares to another. WIth tis relativity, I can say that the Nazis and KKK are degenerate because they are ethnocentric based, with their end goal being the existence of a 'master race'. From the worldcentric perspective we can see this.
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thoth87
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:50 am  Reply with quote

from all perspectvies but that of a Nazi/KKK ally or member, you can see that. and here's a question... is Nazi society orderly (because of strict regulations) or chaotic (because of it's massive killings of others)?
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transport22
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:21 am  Reply with quote

Hmm...Let me know if this makes sense.

What is chaos and order?

Chaos: Unmanifest Truth
Order: Manifest Truth

Both seem to be two sides the same coin, the Universe existing, fundamentally, as a union of opposites, a paradox beyond the mind's ability to 'reason' out.

What is Truth?

Universal Truth:
All Is One~The Part Cannot be Separated from the Whole~Reality Exists as a Mirror

Personal Truth:
Perspective of a Consciousness Based Upon their level of Development, Imprinting, Karma, & Awareness

This is another example of duality & paradox, which is a common motif for all of our identifications with our perceptions here on Earth. Light & Dark, Peace & War, Good & Bad, Truth & Illusion.....etc.

What's my point? <shrugs> By accepting everything as IS, without judgment or labeling, and dwelling in the eye of the paradox we can create (or destroy) our lives from a place of deep essence, from a realm of wisdom, intuition, and joy that exists beyond the forever questioning Ego.

The Ego being nothing more than an accumluation of habits, beliefs, and emotions from our past that keep us from truly experiencing the mystery of the unknown in our lives NOW.
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thoth87
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2004 1:17 pm  Reply with quote

and therefore... ego is bad. right?
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transport22
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:43 pm  Reply with quote

I see the Ego as a tool which allows us to learn from our experiences...of what was. The trouble comes, the 'badness' if you will, when we 'think' the tool, our temporal sense of self based upon outside stimuli, is in fact who we really are. But I do see the Ego (false personality) as a vaulable asset to learning and growing from what doesn't work for us and our paths.
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