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thoth87
PostPosted: Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:49 am  Reply with quote

allright, here's how it is. humankind is in a rut, a standstill. the wheel is turning, but we're covering no ground because we're propped up on something. here's how i figure. allright, every year we gain more knowledge of the universe, be it scientific or otherwise. people are continually growing smarter... and yet they have begun to unevolve on the opposite side of that. as we grow more intelegent, more capable of higher thought, we are slowly becoming weak. our muscles are less adapted because there is so much that is done for us by machines (*cough* automobiles *cough), our immune systems are pathetic because of all the drugs and medicines we rely on, and every year more and more people need glasses. what i'm getting at is that every time we get something new, something else is taken away. sacrificing the physical for the mental. Ralph Waldo Emerson, in his essay "Self Reliance" (which I have only read a small portion of for an english test) compares a modern (eighteenth century) American Scholar with a Abborigonal New Zealander. he first describes them: the scholar a lean, frail-looking individual. he wears fine clothes and can think circles around the populace of most of the rest of the world. now you look at the New-Zelander, muscular, rather hairy and wearing nothing save for a loincloth. his only belongings are a stone-headed hand axe and 1/20th of a thatched, three walled hut to sleep under at night. so here's what happens: you take up an axe, and strike the Scholar. it is most assuredly a fatal wound, and the man will die quite soon. then you take the same axe and strike the New-Zealander. the blow is painful to him, but within three days time, it heals together and he is out hunting with his fellow tribesmen.

do you see? we're heading blindly forward, and leaving our natural traits behind. we need to work with both, so that we may become ever so much greater of a race (*cough* push gym harder in school *cough*).

Thoughts?
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Datura
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 8:16 pm  Reply with quote

Stop using the words "human kind" when you mean "Minority world". I think the 70% of the human population who constitute the rest would kill for some of the luxuries you claim have driven us into the "evolutionary rut".

For one thing (you know, real facts instead of romanticised ideological arguments) Maori (native New Zealander) babies have a 1/100 chance of dying from Meningococle B, a deadly disease that's a serious concern for health authorities in New Zealand. White babies don't have this threat, and have higher immune systems, even if they still do have a small chance of catching the virus. However, the genetic and environmental factors in the Indigenous population mean that, evolutionary speaking, they are less equipped to survive such a threat. Those babies born in Australia though, to the frail, pail, withdrawn scholars, have an almost zero chance of contracting the disease, and only a very small chance of getting any other form of Meningicocle. Now, this isn't a country-thing, because New Zealand's medical facilities and health care system is on par, if not better, than Australia's.

You're thinking too small. If you talk about evolution, you have to talk about things that matter, and are a threat to the species, not just to the reputation of the males in the white western world :P You wanna talk about something that's gonna fuck up our evolution, how about the refusal of Islamic countries to acknowledge the AIDS crisis that is growing within them, thanks to backward sexual beliefs and practices?
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 12:49 pm  Reply with quote

They really would kill for the entire spectrum of the things we have. i know if i was in the same situation i would too. Good or bad, they do wind up helping us a lot as they are...though i do agree that you dont need a !@#$ chicken pox vaccine, or flu vaccines that dont even work. (if you dont know why i'll share if you want)

and dont forget, humans are nothing if not damnably stubborn and persistent, even when they aren't suited for the type of work or situation that demands it. believe me, its quite quite simple, its what one could call the neanderthalic mentality that simply says "i refuse to give in", besides it is (in my horrible opinion) much better to die trying than succumb to the problem.

But then again what do i know, go ahead and bash it in every way you both can! we'll just settle up after!
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thoth87
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 4:54 pm  Reply with quote

allright, so there's one particular disease that damages my arguement. a few more, if you would (seriously) and about those backwards religious beliefs agains AIDS, i should point out that one of the problems that has driven us into this rut is religion (or the majority of different religions) and so, you've added fuel to my flame, as it were. also, you are correct, the majority of people would kill for the 'lucturies' i've described, and that's really too bad. they see it as our blessing (as do many of the people who have these lucturies) but to mine eye, it's a curse.

Quote:
You're thinking too small. If you talk about evolution, you have to talk about things that matter, and are a threat to the species, not just to the reputation of the males in the white western world


who the hell gives a damn about the reputation of western males? honestly? do you, because you seem to care a hell of a lot more than i do. and too small? well, maybe so, but the largest building starts with a single brick, as it were.

there's that.
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Datura
PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 7:49 pm  Reply with quote

Quote:
who the hell gives a damn about the reputation of western males? honestly? do you,


No, but the issues of physical evolution you brought up are only applicable to the Minority (ie- Western) world. You're comparing the evolution of someone in a certain environment to the evolution of (a romanticised) version of someone else in another environment. It's like saying fish are devolutions because they can't fly in the sky. Nonsense, really.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 6:13 pm  Reply with quote

Okay, after your page and a half rant on patriarchal society and how its fucked us over, click the link. this sums up how much sense you've wound up making.

www.badgerbadgerbadger.com

trust me.
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thoth87
PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:02 pm  Reply with quote

seen it.

and how is it nonsense? allright, let's compare the Native populace of the American continent 300 years ago and compare it to the native populace now. allright, not all of it, but the majority of (American) indians have gone the same road that i've allready described. no, i'm not thinking the Casino owning stereotype-ridden indians, but just the current indian population over all. they've done it. and the example is comparing a more 'natural' version of a human to a more 'intelegent' form of a human, as it were. yup.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 4:27 pm  Reply with quote

its not nonsense, i was referring to how quickly she changed her opinion that was in one post, ironclad with ridiculous amounts of evidence, and next, oh its not important. its one of those things/beliefs that usually tends to, ya know, stick with you for a while. just like my own damnable "childish" views of how the world should work. And its not wrong for people to change their views that rapidly, but normally if one minute you say "look at all this bad shit that screwed us over and is the reason for everything" and the next "oh its not important, the hell with it", even i havnt done that to such a degree yet, i usually just cede part of the arguement. *sigh* oh well i guess its a damn the torpedoes forum anyway! For Aiur!!!!

and another interesting fact, the IRS wants to tax the amerind (new PC word for them) casinos, because aparrently them screwing us over after we screwed them over is just not vin diesel.

And i do agree that medicine will probably wind up huring us more in the long run, but hey what can you do? it does help NOW and thats all that matters to most people. and i personally dont use medication unless its vital for the immediate relief. like tylenol when my heads about the split and i hafta go to play rehersal. (i do crew, im not talented enough to be on stage) or when im uber sick during the week and know i'll wind up having an assload of wor to make up at school, so i want to get better quicker. usually i tough it out, its more fun too, to see if you can drive yourself to do it.
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thoth87
PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2003 8:37 pm  Reply with quote

first off, i'd like to say that my bit about 'nonsense?' was directed towards Datura's post. and also, i'd like to honestly say that i allow myself to take as little medication as possible. sure, it's helpful to us now! it's good for us now! but...oh wait, so were the machines, as i recall correctly...

hmm... interesting.

(Lunge!)
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 12:54 pm  Reply with quote

IM HERE TO SAVE THE DAY!

*flies into trashcan*
*quickly composes*
*immediately flies into adjacent trashcan*

ITS ME!

*trip*

okay, sorry, but i figured i'd better clarify anyway, and while the medicines could rise up, its kinda unlikely, but hey, always a possibility! It would seem to be much MORE of a possibility to me if/when we create nanotechnology for repairing damaged cells, because as it is they are simply aides that react with the body's immune system and speed it up. Besides with just medicines, the body would probably adapt to eliminate them if they went rogue/hostile towards us.

we're suprisingly adaptable and stubborn as crap when the need arises, but it just doesnt arise very often anymore.

Oh and im no masochist who enjoys being sick, i just have FAR too much free time. besides im too damn lazy to go out and buy tylenol most of the time.
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thoth87
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 6:23 pm  Reply with quote

the deal of it is, i haven't been sick in nigh three years, and in that time i've gone through one bottle of Mylanta (don't ask) so there's my bit of info on the whole thing. and as for medicines being an aide for the immune system, i'm not into crutches dude. i broke my leg last year, and i used my crutches less than anything. i hopped around like a friggin' spring with my good leg, and if i fall (which i did occasionaly) i fell in such a way as to not harm my bad leg. stick it in the air, and hope you don't roll!

HUZZAH!
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Datura
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 10:41 pm  Reply with quote

Quote:
they've done it. and the example is comparing a more 'natural' version of a human to a more 'intelegent' form of a human, as it were. yup.


No, you're comparing what's natural to one environment to what's natural to another environment. Evolution is based on diversification within adaptation in the environment of the species. If the environment of the white-man is at a certain place then to be of a persuasion of a hard-bodied indigenous person who would have troubles in that environment (the mentioned disease, some indigenous people have problems with genetic alcohol intolerance, high rates of bone cancer and STDs etc) would ne un-natural. Nature is totally dependant on the environment. Like I said, a fish is naturally suited to water, but doesnt need to evolve to fly, and if it did, it would be un-natural. You can't compare a creature of one environment to a creature of another and call it un-natural.

Quote:
this sums up how much sense you've wound up making.


Not only is this reflective of how childish you are, but also how you haven't ben able to evolve the braincells to understand your changing online environment. Is that my fault? No, not really. Point proven. Maybe you should find a new environment, or you could, you know, evolve. Because I'm not about to de-evolve anytime soon for you.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 10:08 am  Reply with quote

and thats the best way to do it right there! the only fun way! *continues to trip continuously*

well technically we arent evolving anymore, at least our bodies arent. we are like the beavers who modify the environment, but we've moved far beyond simple necessity and have created many things that are not vital but do make life easier. the internet, games, cars, hell most things of this era.

childish? hah, so says the pessimistic goth sounding one. and changing online environment? how is it changing? perhaps you could enlighten us to this extraortinary metamorphosis instead of blowing it out your ass? thank you, come again.

oh and dont forget, Datura-baby, that childish is an entirely perceptive based thing. i used this to display how little your opinion swapping makes sense. dont like it? deal with it! i deal with you, so i request that you do the same. Danke.
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thoth87
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 1:12 pm  Reply with quote

no, -I- was comparing the bloody people, not the goddamn environment, get it straight! geez! this is ONE form of a human, this is ANOTHER! i don't GIVE A DAMN where you come from, or your environment, your a goddamn person, and that's that. i was showing two different ones.

now that that's off my chest, er...

not much else to say, acutually... i'll leave you and Beest alone for this little match...

*passes out masks and foils*

have at!
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Datura
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 9:19 pm  Reply with quote

Quote:
i don't GIVE A DAMN where you come from, or your environment, your a goddamn person, and that's that. i was showing two different ones.


But the point is, you were comparing two humans who have evolved into different natural forms, and judging the naturalness of one against the other. (is there a broken record in this thread?) That's the point. You can't do that

Quote:
well technically we arent evolving anymore, at least our bodies arent.


See, this is something I hear a lot, yet doesn't make sense. Evolution happens over millions of years, and yet we only have a recorded history that goes back about, say 6000-10 000 years or so. How can you make statements like that then?

Quote:
hah, so says the pessimistic goth sounding one


How am I pessimistic, and how (exactly) do I "sound like a goth"?
...

Quote:
i used this to display how little your opinion swapping makes sense


What opinion swapping? Are you guys reading imaginary posts I can't see that I make in my sleep or something?

Quote:
changing online environment? how is it changing? perhaps you could enlighten us to this extraortinary metamorphosis instead of blowing it out your ass?


More people are coming onto the board. You and your little group of boys can't just degenerate the threads into action-play posts anymore. Intelligent discussion is required for this board to live up to its name.
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