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Wintermute
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:13 am  Reply with quote

I was going to respond but this isn't really my turf. I'll leave this to nightbeest. Good luck... beesty says you will need it. Don't know what he means but oh well.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:13 am  Reply with quote

*takes the stand in with great bliss*

and as such we begin!

yes, however opinion is in the end, everything! and while they are entirely based on PERCEPTIONS. and how many people on the earth act irrationally? hmmm? and what right do you have to judge rational and irrational? after all we know jack and shit about the human brain after all!!!!!! and our true nature? how do you know? you dont, i dont, nobody dont! and theres also no FUN if we have any concrete definitions! after all, we cant prove any or not either way! (yes i know its sometimes more convenient. remember the datura pms arguement? *shudder*)
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thoth87
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2003 8:42 pm  Reply with quote

taking it slow...

Opinion IS everything, point for your side. and the popular one is the 'right or wrong'. see? do you see? perhaps i should have replace 'oppinion' with 'programed response' or something similar.

NEXT: i never defined rational, so lay off shorty. i say 'rational thought' with the idea that 'rational thought' is something that everyone here has. something other than a 'programed response', or in esscence, a true oppinion. and what does the brain have to do with rationality? seriously?

and where the HELL did you get true nature? AND I QUOTE:
Quote:
let's not speak of humans, but instead speak of people. a person does not have to be human, nor does a human have to be a person. we will refer to this 'person' as one who is capable of rational thought and acts according to it.

nope, nothing about the nature of humanity, or 'people'.
and on this particular section of your post, i'd like to point out that I invited everyone to make a contribution/modification. so nya.

and finally: deffinitions. i chose do define so we had a solid base to go off of, and so our folowing arguement (or debate, as some prefer) would not be inturupted with people's deffinitions. we don't need definitons, you might be thinking, but look at it this way: without something to build off of, any ideas, theories or jokes you might concieve of would have no solid base, and make no sense to anyone save for the people that share your exact oppinion of the meaning of the word. much like building a house on quicksand, it don't work too aweful well.

not saying that the Realm of deffinition isn't one of the most entertaining places imagineable, but it's not where i'd like this thread to lead.

that's it.

oh, and about this next one...

Quote:
what right do you have to judge rational and irrational?


I am a man with an oppinion, and that gives me all the right i need.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 2:40 pm  Reply with quote

very good! very good! you went through the hole i gave you! (opinions)

and sorry, i just had a bad day and felt like datura did. I knew what ya meant, but i just had to vent somewhere. and either way, opinion and programmed response are generally one and the same amongst many people, agreed?

okay okay, you didnt define rational, but its generally inferred as someone entirely based on logic, no emotion. the "robot" view as it was in the 1950s or so. (danger will robinson danger, and what not if you need the example). At least thats how i think of it!

And it might just be me, but when you say people i think of civilicized people, and humans as having the general base characteristics, emotions, reflexes, and instict. thoughts in there, but not vital to existance, since one can be perfectly well off without it.

well...well...NYAH!

and like i said in the opening, your final paragraph not only succeeds in basihing me back, but reenforcing my point! And im sorry, but it just hits a burn on my ass when people try to classify others and put them on lower or higher levels. Its probably just from personal experience or somethin, dont bother with it, just my own irkdom.
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Zenzirouj
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:21 pm  Reply with quote

Is it just me, or are all of these threads the same thing...We start talking about something, then we get to why this or that happens, and we end up explaining it by saying that reality exists only for the induividual and everybody agrees and the topic dies...

I think we need to discuss something without getting so far into the theological aspect....
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Zenzirouj
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 2:22 pm  Reply with quote

You know, my avatar goes perfectly with "Free mind".
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The Er
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 5:33 am  Reply with quote

Quote:
Is it just me, or are all of these threads the same thing...We start talking about something, then we get to why this or that happens, and we end up explaining it by saying that reality exists only for the induividual and everybody agrees and the topic dies...

I think we need to discuss something without getting so far into the theological aspect....


That is partly true, but without really examining something to it;s full extremes it's hard to get a good enough understaning of it to aptly judge it credability.

Quote:
'there is no right or wrong, only popular oppinion'.


I myself don't believe in any distinctive way of decisions such as right or wrong, as it is always open to discussion, and different perceptions.

As to popular opinion, really, what is a popular opinion but your perception the the opinion of the mass public, and even then it can only be taken to a certain extent, as any group of people may agree on certain core concepts, but as to the whole opinion they will have different views, as they have had different histories with similar views.

Anyways, just thought i'd just get that out there and try and help the discussion.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 8:21 am  Reply with quote

this is true, because in the end well we just choose to believe that. you dont have to, feel free to keep on proposing any and every thing you can think of! and exactly, thoth, we do have to go into the most in depth that we can.

and who said that quote in the first place? i cant pull that out of my....you know. but thats wrong, i believe, because there is right and wrong, but its all individual and based on the groups of people who believe just that.

it might not all be the same but hey, its a start.
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Purpose
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 5:28 am  Reply with quote

Quote:
I myself don't believe in any distinctive way of decisions such as right or wrong, as it is always open to discussion, and different perceptions.


Well this is true in the majority of cases. But the fact that to this question

Do i own a black or indigo video game controller.

A) black
b) indigo

The asnwer is A and only A. And don't say any of that mumble about your perception of it is that it's black but it might be indigo.

This isn't open to discussion, it is black, purely black. Can you argue that it isn't? It's not a perception, becasue if it were many would see it as indigo but if they didn't and saw it (everyone) as black, EVERYONE would think it was black - then it most obviously is black.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 8:58 am  Reply with quote

however you have shot your own arguement in the foot. how do you know that others dont see the color differently? that they have a color blindness in their genes that causes them to see it neon pink?

you fail to take into account any other factors that could change the end result. you can believe that, but since it limits every single choice and perception you make. you can do that, however you already stated why its wrong in your post. so i wont bother restating it again.

hope you enjoyed shooting yourself in the ass!
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Purpose
PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 3:16 pm  Reply with quote

It's black, not indigo. Therefore there is only one asnwer, no arguing - even if you see it as neon pink, it's still black to everyone else.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 8:19 am  Reply with quote

like i said, how do you know? how do you know what others see? YOU DONT, I DONT, NOBODY DOES. what you say applies to what you percieve it as. if others do as well, whoop de doo for them, it was still based on THEIR perceptions and not YOUR OWN. unless youre ungodly egotistical and think that you did have something to do with it. we can go back to daturas huge annoyance post and say that in this case neither of us CAN prove jack shit because we can take control and see through the eyes of other people. if we could then we could determine for sure, but we cant, and as such, i'd appriciate it if you kept your personal perceptions just that, personal. you can say what you think it is but always remember that we all can, and probably will, see it however we friggin choose to.

and a quick question: your name is purpose, is it in reference to the lack of one or the presence of one? i was just curious (its completely unrelated to the topic i know, but it was just bugging me)
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Purpose
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 1:50 am  Reply with quote

Ok i get your point now, my friend (The Er) explained it to me the other day when we where argueing about it.

My name doesn't really have preference to anything but the fact that i beleive that everyone (everything) has a purpose in life.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:57 am  Reply with quote

well kudos on understanding it! i barely do myself sometimes.

and thats a good belief to have, at least most of the time.
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thoth87
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 11:10 pm  Reply with quote

it CANT be black...

why?

BECAUSE... Black is the abscence of all light or color. you want to see black? well, that's oximoronic in it's own way... because you can't see without light, and black is the complete lack of any light or color... but if you do, then go into a cave... i mean INTO one, not just in the mouth. way into it. anyways.

what you have is either extremely dark gray or extremely dark blue... not black.

and why do you think that everyone has a purpose? the way i see it, everything can be put to a purpose, but the idea that you (and everything) has a SET purpose that you're created for... well, it sounds too much like predestination to me... in fact, that's what it is.

just asking mind.
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