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thoth87
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:34 pm  Reply with quote

before we begin this topic, i'd like to make ONE concrete definition/rule for it, although i only do this because i think it'll help the topic along. this one thing is this:

that we have control of ourselves.

allright, now that that's out of the way, i'ma jump right in.

we control ourselves, but what limits do we have on outside control? i mean, we can control weather we are going to punch an object, but do we really control how that object acts afterwards? and what about other people? is there any way to 'control' another person.

ah, you've prolly found the loophole

(stupid thoth, forgot to define control, i'll show him).

well, sir or madam, whichever is most appropriate, this is purposeful. use the loophole, that's what it's there for, after all.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:10 am  Reply with quote

Thank you, i'll do that!

Well yes, but i mean its what weve been taught/seen what happens that defines the end results yes? Perhaps, but i couldn't say from experience.
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thoth87
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2004 2:53 pm  Reply with quote

you could go down that generic path, and i think that that's it, but then, i'd like to just do a refresh of this idea... it could change.
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Sky
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:58 pm  Reply with quote

well, you know my view on control.....
we have none, its a matrix, there is no need, why?? there is no control, only by fate, fate is our control

least thats what i think today....... hehehe, im still a bit confuzzled
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thoth87
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:50 am  Reply with quote

we have control... I think. i mean, we have personal control. and we control how we look at things.
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Sky
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 3:02 pm  Reply with quote

yeah, suppose in that way, but not in what we do, or what our ilves consist of.
We have no control over where we are born etc, or what we look like (naturally, not like michael jackson) and culture etc.
but i think theres more to it than that...... something bigger
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 2:02 pm  Reply with quote

Well but think about it, we usually do fall addicted to what we believe we control.
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Orion
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:39 pm  Reply with quote

An argument lasting hundreds of years, free will Vs determinism, i enjoy igniting brain cells thinking about the theory of infinite possibility, that every action has it's cause, ad it's consequence, and so forth.. but if one could truly see the decisions (control) from every perspective possible (???) then one could feasably predict the future, having really weird de ja vu's at the mo aswell.. anyone vibin'?
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thoth87
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2004 4:43 pm  Reply with quote

I dig. and why dont you register, cat? but anyways, I like the ideas of infinite possibilities as well, but I don't like it, cause that means there's alot more for me to see and do and such before I die. and perhaps afterwards, too. no way of knowing, really, as I cant predict the future.

and I dont think anyone can (acurately) because there's always some unseen variable. the best pool player in the world lines up a shot. a shot he's made billions of times before. a shot that he could never miss. he takes it, thinking perfection is his, and yet the wind blows slighly, or a door opens, or someone un-buttons their coat, or there's a hair on the table, and the shot misses.

see?
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Realist
PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 8:48 pm  Reply with quote

Ultimately what we control is what we ourselves do, and what we can convince others to do, but then again that's again linked to what we can do. For example, you can punch someone with the intent to knock them back or knock them down. After the punch in thrown, however, what actually happens is up to them, their mussles, gravity, and minutely on the air. We can try to make things happen a particular way, and can make it likely that it will happen that way, but we can't force it or be sure it will happen that way.
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thoth87
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 1:31 pm  Reply with quote

wow, Realist, we finally agree on something.

score.
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Realist
PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 4:25 pm  Reply with quote

w00t
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:36 am  Reply with quote

Indeed, as do i. that sums it up entirely as i thought about it.
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Guest
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:14 pm  Reply with quote

we have no control you say? well i do belive that we indeed do have control because it is our humanism and emotions that control us, so thus, control them and we control ourselves, in the waking world we do something, crap out of time, i'll finish this later
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 8:11 pm  Reply with quote

But can you ever truly control your emotions? Can you ever truly control yourself? All of us fall victim to indulgences at one time or another, even the best and most trained of us all. We do maintain some control, such as when we see something we truly desire, but restrain ourselves from pursuing, but the issue here is *complete* control. We can indeed restrain ourselves for prolonged periods of time, but in the end we can never truly control all the things about us.

*opinions subject to change without notice*
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