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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 7:31 am  Reply with quote

At the end of the movie where neo fries the sentinels, it makes you wonder: is the "real world" just another level of the matrix? it would seem like that, but i dont think it is. there are a bunch of reasons why it seems to be the REAL real world. but the best one is this: The machines are all fed by humanity that are hard wired to the matrix. therfore, they all have a portion of them that is hard wired to the system, and as a result Neo can control them and make them do as he wishes, because he has freed himself even more than the previous six "Ones", becoming even more enlightened than they have.

its truly remarkable, how machines never planned for this. its just another example of machines understimating the human will to survive and press on. to end it up, heres morpheus's quote from the movie (give or take a few words):

And after 100 years, i realize one thing: WE ARE STILL HERE! let us rumble these walls, let this cave let them remember: this is Zion! (even though it has ironically been destroyed many times before)
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Zenzirouj
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 1:51 pm  Reply with quote

Yeah, irony is a big part of Reloaded. But, I don't think that there's another Matrix, I think that Neo just gained a connection to the computers when he killed Smith, which allowed him to control the sentinels and allowed Smith to get out of the Matrix.

And if it turns out that there is a Matrix within the Matrix, I swear I will hunt the Wachowski Brothers down and personally boot my foot up their collective asses.
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Cam
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 4:21 pm  Reply with quote

I think there is another level of the Matrix.
And I was wondering when someone was going to ask that question...

Here's my reasoning:
1. Agent Smith is just program code that compiles into 0s and 1s.
So how was he able to take over a real human body?

2. When Neo says, "you can't get rid of us, you need us..."
The Architect says, "There are levels of existence we are prepared to except..."

3. There's one thing that seperates humans from the machines. Love.
The machines don't have the ability . And the machines know it.
When you take away all physical illusions, what do you have "left"?
The energy of Love(God). Which is all there truly is.
Thus the "left" door leads to Love. The truth!
The first 5 Neos denied their personal feelings of love and made the logically correct decision.
The same decision the machines wanted them to make. They tricked the past Neo's by lying to them.
Saying by choosing the "right" door (pun intended) it would hail the destruction of the matrix.
But why would the machines even give humans an opportunity to "dethrone" them?
They wouldn't! But because the architect couldn't figure out how to completely irradicate the anomaly
it tried to do the next best thing. Catch the anomaly before it totally corrupts the system (Error Trapping for us programmers).
Make the anomaly percieve it has the choice to end the Matrix at an earlier point in the program before total
damage could be done to the system. If you were a computer, would you rather be rebooted over and over or shutdown for good?
The architect knew that if it could get Neo (the anomaly) to flow one way through the system, at worst the Matrix
would have to reboot.(Right door) Insuring it's existence.

4. So Neo has now transcended the first level(dimension) of the Matrix.
Through Neo, human awareness has risen to another level of existence.
Which from a buddhist point of view doesn't neccesarily mean you've
freed yourself
form the material realm completely(Matrix). And a lot of the finer aspects of the
Wachowski's story can only be explained from a buddhists pov.

There are other clues I think they give but I'm not for sure my theory is true.
So I'll hold onto them and get back witcha guys and gals!
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 9:56 am  Reply with quote

it could be a new level of the matrix, however then you have to look at the even BIGGER scale of things. what if these machines are the programs of other machines which are the programs of OTHER machines and so on and so forth! that means that the matrix is infinite, and there IS NO WAY OUT. this it basically the counter to everything that we are saying here. i mean think about that again. if its infinite, then there is nothing one can do regardless of what they believe. it is obviously possible, however its very VERY pessimistic in terms of viewing things, because if you think this way, then you can never be free.
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AceBandit44
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 12:23 pm  Reply with quote

I too though that there could be another level to the matrix , but I soon realized one flaw in that idea. If there was another level to the matrix or even if there was 1000000000 other levels , then NEO MORPHEUS TRINNITY all of them would still be plugged into a pod somewhere , and would be absolutly no threat to the program. They would still think there in reality , and not be, same as anyone in any level of the matrix.

So with that im going to have to say that neo has somehow connected himself to the bots , and can now in some ways control them . He is part of them .

just my thoughts....
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 12:30 pm  Reply with quote

or maybe, they will never BE a threat, because there are so many different levels of the matrix that they will never be able to break out all the way and become a threat. its interesting to wonder about, especially since there are so many options that they could be taking for the third movie.
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GreenPintoBean
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2003 2:52 pm  Reply with quote

What if the machines are pluged in on a level of the matrix? This would mean that the machines are not control of the world or reality. They would think that they are in control and would consider Neo a threat to them and try to stop him.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2003 5:53 pm  Reply with quote

but think about that, they are probably well prepared in the event that something like that happens, since there are so many different levels possible. besides, there are probably multiple machines that are ready to take over a task if one ceases to function. and they also arent probably connected all the time, cause if they were then they would be able to monitor all the conversations and stuff that go on between the people in it, whether they are hacking in or not.

after all, since the machines learned from us, they probably see a few of their own kind as expendable right? after all they learned how to be as stupid as we were/are.
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Realist
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 10:55 pm  Reply with quote

It would make sense for them to be freed into another level of the matrix. The architect said that most humans would accept the program, but a small number would not. So they would make a better program for those few to be "freed" into.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:35 am  Reply with quote

The program was altered to be the crappy matrix that exists, remember? Where a good 90% of the people live in poverty and crappy lives and in danger of death every day. Perhaps people accept it better if they are released onto a higher level of the matrix and believe that they can end the suffering of the lower level? (speaking relatively lower = matrix, real world = higher, just for simpler words to type)
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Realist
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2004 12:32 pm  Reply with quote

It depends on why the people wanted to be free of the matrix. If its to improve their lives then yes, a world with less suffering would be the way to go. But if it's simply because they sense something wrong with the world, the matrix would keep on making new layers until everyone is caught in one layer or another.
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transport22
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:14 pm  Reply with quote

But what are the layers dependant upon? Surely they're not infinite. If they're finite, it's always possible to find the source~weaver and neutralize its influence.
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Realist
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 7:45 pm  Reply with quote

If I was the matrix, I would be looking at what allowed the freed person to get free of the lower layer of the matrix, and make sure the layer he would be freed into wouldn't have that problem.

The layers don't have to be infinite, but you can probably make enough of them that anyone who gets free of them all would simply be killed, with very little impact on the total electicity product. It's cruel, but it has the practicality I would expect a machine to have.
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nightbeest77
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:16 pm  Reply with quote

Actually yes you could very, very easily make an infinite number. Take the earth today, take each individual culture. now take one instrument from each culture and swap it with one more. make a world. repeat process. locations and land type, and climate could all be done the same way, machines have a randomization ability even now that could do it. Its up the machines imagination as well what each level contains.
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